Khush: 0:10

Welcome to the curiosity crisis, we challenge ourselves to explore the world of business tech, investing in science, get curious and be part of the journey as we discuss, challenge and learn. So today we're doing a deep dive into Coinbase. The ticker is coin on the NASDAQ. We'll also look at the crypto industry and our thesis on the company, including the bull case. And look at the downside of the bear case, including the risks. So we're both very interested in the company and the in the space in general, so incredibly easy to get into the into it. Looky How are you going?

Luke: 0:43

Yeah, very good to be excellent. I feel like we cover a couple things here because we get to look at a new space, but also traditional investing. So it should be should be good.

Khush: 0:52

Absolutely. Do you have a worth giving us to kick us off?

Luke: 0:57

I do. And it's I'm stealing from me. It's something that you sent me today, actually, is that a new material by AI was discovered, which could reduce lithium use in batteries. So they they looked at an alternative. My understanding was Microsoft, researchers used an AI supercomputer to narrow down 32 million potential inorganic materials down to about 18. And then they did the hard work in the lab on the last 18. And they may have found lots of it's pretty interesting, I want to have a little bit more of a look at that, especially with battery tech becoming more and more relevant at the moment. So yeah,

Khush: 1:35

I remember reading that I got sent it, I flick it straight on to you, because I knew it was stuff that you would absolutely love. But ya know, very, very interesting on that side. And like it mentioned, you know, solid state batteries. And there is so much in that space. I think I'm keen to dig deeper, a bit more, and we'll discuss later. Yeah, for sure.

Luke: 1:54

Have you gone?

Khush: 1:55

Yeah, so mine is it's topical. But I promise it wasn't, you know, especially for this episode. But I'm very, very curious on about the crypto industry and crypto space for this year. We'll talk about some of that stuff as we go through. But I've seen this report that I'm very eager to delve into, which is the state of the crypto markets in 2024. And I think you sent me a similar one last year, I turned 23. But I think the space and as we've been reading and stuff like that, and we'll discuss today is changing quite a bit. And it's sort of getting to more towards that. That pole of market or wider adoption. So I'm curious to see what impact that really, really plays and trade ready for I think it's gonna be a big year.

Luke: 2:40

Yeah, I think so as well. And something else that should be imminent, I believe, is the 2020 threes reflection on developer contributions to all these different projects. So they go through GitHub, I think it's electric capital, which is a firm that do this. And I think that comes out in I think, the end of January. So that'll be another report, that'll be really interesting to have a read of to see what's had the most growth in terms of developer activity, and like people actually building stuff. So that'll be another interesting

Khush: 3:11

well, until obviously, until recently, a few months ago, it's been a bear market. And famously, I'll quote you every time, the day markets for building so there should be some good stuff in that report. It's true. It's true. 100%.

Luke: 3:23

I hope so. Could be good for both of us. Yeah,

Khush: 3:26

absolutely. Very, very interested. We'll kicking it off, do you want to give us a bit of an intro to Coinbase, a little bit of the history and early business overview.

Luke: 3:36

So basically, if you don't know about Coinbase, I'll give you just a real brief explanation on what it is and how it started. And essentially, it came from a guy called Brian Armstrong and his co founder decided to build a wallet back in believers 2009, after they read the white paper, it may have been 2010. It was pretty early on. And they are they basically decided that they'd build this browser extension, or this this application. And people started using it. And they I believe they posted on the YC forums. And so people started using it. And it was kind of the same type of crowd that would be interested in it. And they did the classic that every gay company did. And they listened to their customers and all their customers were basically saying, Yeah, your wallets kind of cool, but we'd actually just like to buy, buy bitcoin, like we don't have any access to it. And they kept getting this, you know, it's great that you have a wallet, but how do I how do I get something into and so they did the ultimate pivot and they pivoted towards being a being an exchange, essentially. And they were they were one of the earliest exchanges, and it worked out really well for them. And ever since then the business has grown significantly, but not just in you know what, you know how big they are, but kind of what they have moved into they're not just an exchange anymore. Yeah. Now

Khush: 4:59

awesome. Um, I think, you know, as all sort of touched on today, you know, what it's got itself into now. And it's all strategy. And what it does, is probably wildly different and almost unimaginable back in the day when he started the wallet to hold you Bitcoin and stuff. So, yeah, keen to keen to get into it. Before I go into, like, you know, Coinbase as a business today, do you want to give sort of how it started to be the company that is today in terms of the trading revenues and whatnot? Yeah,

Luke: 5:29

so something that is pretty relevant is that in terms of, you know, analysis of it, it was, it was always kind of perceived as having poor fundamentals. And this kind of stemmed from the idea that revenue was directly tied to trading volume. So when things you know, were kind of in a bull phase, things were going really well, that would link to their revenue, and that would go up. And as soon as things kind of quiet down, and we're back into a winter or a bit of a bear market, their revenue will also drop. And so in a lot of people's eyes, you know, it's not stable, you can't scale up and down, you know, your employees, for example, like every time this happens, you know, but they were they were patient, and they were able to survive those times. And, you know, unlike other exchanges, some of the competitors which weren't public, they would diversify into much more things other than just training fees, because they wouldn't have to disclose what they were doing with the funds, which seemed like a bad thing in terms of the business for Coinbase. But the big advantage was that they were able to build trust because of this. And that's resulted in them being able to pivot into things that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to. And so now, they're a very, very different business.

Khush: 6:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think we'll, we'll definitely talk about the trust piece, or I mean, it's sort of steady right across a coin base and what they're doing and which direction they're sort of heading now, which is becoming the onramp for a lot of people who business lot institutions into the crypto space. So that's kind of a common theme that's made them stand out completely against the against competition. Yeah, well, to sort of highlight, you know, what you're talking about Coinbase. Today, you know, looking at 2023 reporting numbers is so wildly different to where it IPO back in 2017. And the headline sort of that really highlights that is that, you know, nowadays, the trading fees, which you know, what it started as, as a as an exchange, or less than 50% of its total revenue. So, and that's changed completely from 2017, where IP owed and, you know, had a crazy big value of much bigger valuation than it does today, were trading fees were 96, about 96% of their revenue, so pretty much their whole business. So that's completely changed. And that's made it I think, a lot more of a stable and palatable business to traditional sort of investors.

Luke: 7:46

Definitely, I think one of the biggest things that I came across, I believe it was quarter two of 2023. I'm pretty sure that was the point in which they ticked over their recurring revenue being greater than their their trading revenue, their trading favorite revenue, I think that was like, one of the biggest milestones in terms of, I guess, stability and robustness as a business.

Khush: 8:09

Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, I suppose they they still are like, by its very nature, crypto is volatile. We know that. And, and, you know, Coinbase, as revenues have been fluctuating quite a bit like in 2020, they made about $2 billion worth of revenue, and they made a profit in 2001, they made $8 billion worth of revenue, at a massive profit of 3.6 billion. And then in 2022, they made $3 billion dollars worth of revenue at a loss of 2.6 billion. So that is that that's those are tied to the crypto cycle and the trading fees based on how much hard there was. But the thing is, over that time, what's been happening in the background, what they've been working on, is their revenue streams are very much changing to being holy that Treasury revenue to more diversified across a few different things that I mean, I've got there. I've got the revenue statement here, which I'm not gonna go through every little bit, but we'll sort of touch on a few of the things that I've diversified into, that's making up now north of 50% of all their revenue. So it's just the it's that changing side and we can talk a little bit later about the strategy of the company and where they're heading. So I'll sort of go through a headline level what some of the, their recurring revenues are, and I'm gonna get you to explain them because, obviously, you know, this stuff pretty in depth. So the first one is kind of boring, but it's very, it's very useful. It's interest on a USDC sort of custodianship. So USDC is a coin that's pegged to the US dollar, if I'm not mistaken, and it's a massive it's one that people use Coinbase a lot for so what they're doing is very boring. It's just like a bank, but essentially, you know, they they will trade USD C for USD and then essentially invest Um, USD is coming in into short term bonds. And at the moment, obviously, so we're recording this in early 2024. Interest rates are crazy. So they're literally just making lots of money on on interest rates, which is not really like a crypto company, but it's a good hedge against crypto cycle. So traditionally higher interest rates, people will go there for returns, stepping away from riskier assets, which is like crypto. So they're making money on either side, simple, boring, but that it's doing good for them. Yeah. And then the other one, another one that's very consistent and ongoing, I'll get you to explain is, is stake. So you know, Coinbase do a lot of staking its its growth, it has been really quite big and consistent. And they've got a take rate or a margin on staking that's one of the best in the industry. And obviously, that volume is growing. So do you wanna just talk about like, what that is essentially, really quickly?

Luke: 10:52

Yeah, look, I think, you know, we want to try to avoid technical terminology too much. So we'll try and keep this, you know, I guess, everyone friendly, but if essentially, staking is part of securing the network. So it's almost like voting on the legitimacy of a transaction, whatever it is. So I kush $10. And you put up a $5 stake to basically confirm or deny whether I do in fact, oh, Cush, $10. And you work through those things. And because of that, you get paid a very small amount. And basically what Coinbase is doing that is they operate staking pools, where essentially all of their users can pool, their stake of you know, whatever crypto it is into this large pool. And then they get, I guess, more voting power within the pool. And so they get a percentage of that back. And then they'll take a cut off the top, and then return that the rest to the users. So me as a user of their service is incentivized to do it, because I'm making a percentage every year, the network is incentivized to do it, because it's how it actually operates. And then Coinbase is incentivized to do it, because they get to take a little cut off the top. What's really cool about it for them as a business is it's incredibly low, I guess, effort and cost with essentially ongoing reward, same as the bonds and the custody strategy. So it's actually it's a very good recurring revenue stream. And it doesn't require that much effort for them once have, you know, got the technology in place.

Khush: 12:18

And fusing is a lot a couple points there that I love about it. One, it is so much easier for, for example, me to buy on their platform and have them stake it for me, rather than going through the effort of selling it myself. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could explain how I do that. But I know interested in doing that. So it'd be it's in my best interest. The other thing is that you mentioned that the clip off the top, so I don't know the exact numbers, but in my reading Coinbase had one of the best margins or take rates for staking in the whole crypto market. So you know, they're making a very decent clip. And that's very much related to that, you know, people trust Coinbase, they're gonna go there. It's their first point of call when they're getting into crypto. And they're happy for Coinbase to take out the complexity and scariness of crypto, and let them do it for them.

Luke: 13:06

I think that ecosystem play really works in there as well, where they can take more than a competitor would. But the advantage is if the user experience is seamless, or there's you know, that trust aspect, or whatever it is that that gets them to use the product to begin with, they'll probably do it regardless of what that take rate actually is compared to their competition, which is really good for them.

Khush: 13:28

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've downloaded and used Coinbase before and it's just, it's clean, it's easy, and it makes crypto not feel like super techy thinking. The other thing which was very related to that, and I won't go into too much is that they get custodian fees for holding crypto assets. So this is big, I think on the institutional side where if you look at their trading revenues, they get traded revenues from retail and institutional, they're put through way more volume on the institutional side, but their margin for trading revenues on the institutional side is next to nothing compared to what they make on the retail side. But where they can start making their money is a few things, but one of them is being the custodian for institutions. And I think we'll get into the Bitcoin ETF a little bit later. But that's that's just a recurring revenue stream that's very good if they had the trust of big institutions and ongoing. And the last one is the crypto venture investment. So as far as I know, they know the market better than anyone else. Like, you know, the CEO is a founder and the whole crypto space. Do you have anything more to add about their crypto venture investments?

Luke: 14:35

Yeah, my my main thing to point out is that they have a successful track record. If you're a VC of any kind, you just want to have success, and they're big ones have been uniswap arbitrage them open see, and I believe one of the kind of newer, well performing assets has been made a protocol and it doesn't matter whether you know, or don't know what any of those are, that's fine. The point is that they have basically had very good investments. That's that's basically the bottom line.

Khush: 15:04

Well, I'll put my hand up and say I haven't heard of any of them except for uniswap. Yeah. But again, if there was somebody to invest into the crypto space in into those ventures for me, it would number one be Luke. And number two, B, v v. Coinbase. So anyway, to keep it moving, let's get into the chunk of it the thesis, do you want to kick us off? Yeah.

Luke: 15:27

So I'm going to start with something called the layer two, which is called base. And the biggest thing to me, which really screams diversification was this, because especially in my mind, for a while it was, you know, I didn't, I didn't look at the balance sheets, I didn't know where revenue was coming from. But as far as I was aware, it was mainly trading fees. And then they worked really hard on this thing called the base in 2023. And essentially, it's a blockchain on top of blockchains. So the second biggest blockchain ever Aetherium, they built something to work on that. And what's crazy about it is, it exploded in popularity. So within, I think, just over a month, they had over $400 million dollars worth of assets on it. And they currently have over 200 protocols and applications, which is huge. So basically, all these decentralized things running on this network that they have built yet. So they've built this, they built this base layer to. And to me, what, what that means is that they're making a real play into, I guess, the future of the space, not just being an exchange that sits there and takes revenue when things are going well. But something that can be really big in the future, as well. So as the space grows, they are also now you know, they have a vested interest within it. But also they can they have like this huge new form of revenue as well, which has the potential to grow massively. And I think that's one of their biggest plays is actually going to be I guess, as a software company doing a lot of things. So I think that's, that's a really big one for me.

Khush: 17:01

Yeah, I think when I was looking at that, like, I was looking at the income statements in the balance sheets, at this point, like, at least at the last last reporting that I saw, base was a very small part of their total percentage of revenues. But that was very, very early days. And it's not really factoring in like the total potential for it. But hearing your, your numbers on it's actually usage rate and the applications being built on it. It just sort of, like shows me that they they get the space, they get the crypto space, and actually building within it. So yeah, they're not just the entry point. But they're within the ecosystem as well, which is really, really awesome. The next one, I think, was the tread fight on ramp. So we've talked a little bit about this, which is actually going to give a brief overview of what that is, because treadplate onramp, might even sound a bit

Luke: 17:48

scary. Yeah. So essentially, Trad fie is traditional finance. And that just refers to all your legacy banks, or, you know, any kind of fund or just all of a kind of like old school, Wall Street finance, that's basically what it's referring to. And the crazy thing here is that Coinbase offers what's called a custody product. And essentially, they will be able to fulfill the purchase for institutional investors. So what does all that mean? There's a lot of words there, essentially Coinbase, a partner with these huge funds, and they want exposure to different asset classes. And this has been deemed as a different asset class. And, essentially, you know, diversification is risk mitigation. So some of these players have basically decided that it is more risk for them to not be involved. So they'd like some small exposure, and Coinbase can facilitate that, which means that again, they can take a little cut of that. And when you're talking, you know, someone who manages $1 trillion, or $10 trillion, or whatever, that's a lot of money if it's a small percentage still.

Khush: 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. And I think this, this plays into what their absolute strength and selling point is, being that the trusted name, the only listed entity in crypto, you know, trying to be friends with the regulators and actually working constructively talk to governments. And there's a place that you know, Google BlackRock, like these massive institutions are starting to go to be the crypto on ramp or just a partner in the in the space. So I think especially after the industry has undergone consolidation, it's still standing strong after the FTX blow up and, and finances issues with regulation and its CEO dropping down. It is it's a very attractive looking name.

Luke: 19:36

And speaking of which, I think one of the biggest things there is so by Nance, for example, a bit of a hot water at the moment, and they made 20 billion revenue last year in 2023. And Coinbase, made, I believe, around eight, and they are very well positioned to eat up some of that market share as well. So I think they're in a very healthy position in terms of competitors, too. So just coming off the back of that trust aspect. I think that that is going And to really help them in the following year for sure.

Khush: 20:03

Yeah. Before we move off this, did you want to speak any more about the Bitcoin spot ETF?

Luke: 20:09

Yeah, I'll just mention one thing, when we are talking about this on ramp, one of the big kind of plays at the moment seems to be the interest in a spot BTC ETF. And what that really is referring to is, you're actually trading on the spot price. So the spot price is the current price. And what we've seen previously is there is the existence of an ETF for it, but it's not based on the spot price. So that means that there's exceedingly more fees. And so that's why big institutions are way more interested. Because when you're putting in a lot of money, you and you're taking a large percentage of that, you know, that's not good for them. And this will drastically reduce that. So they're very interested. But I guess there's the whole regulation, kind of conversation around trading on the spot price, but it's looking like this year, there's a good chance that that will will get approved? And if so, there'll be an enormous flood of capital into well, I guess through Coinbase. So that's huge. Yeah,

Khush: 21:08

yeah, I think that just highlights like, you know, make it more accessible to the masses to institutions to big money for lack of a better term, or traditional finance. So it's a massive opportunity, and sort of along the lines of their mission so far. Yeah, I might move on in the interest of time. One thing that we often read about or hear about when we were listening to fund managers, is they talk about business quality and management quality. We sort of talked about the business quality, how it's been changing, and developing, diversifying revenue streams, recurring revenue streams, all that sort of stuff. And we can talk about it a bit more later, and how they've managed and operated over the last three years, which have been very up and down. But one of the things that I've never really nailed is like how to assess a management team. So like, Yale is a good high quality management team. But one thing we know, and I think I definitely love Bryan Armstrong and his story, and I think you're, you're a big fan, too. One thing that is always talking about fund managers is looking for founder led businesses. So the CEO is the founder. And Coinbase is a classic example of that, you know, you told his story at the start. He's an OG in the space. But the other thing is, he's learned how to manage a business after sort of his really, in depth knowledge and passion for crypto, and he's learning to do it bloody well. So you know, when, when this industry has been blowing up over the last couple of years, you know, we've dealt with the bear market and lots of firms and trading trading firms going under, you know, these guys have that they're still standing. And, you know, they've been going through some really rigorous processes to cut back on spending. So they cut 20% in the bear market, just on marketing expenses, headcount, and just operational expenses. Going into the I think this is when we first started looking at the stock, going into the crypto winter, where everything was looking bearish, that the company had a $7 billion valuation, and it had $5.6 billion worth of cash on book, and it had its investments in its venture arm. So on that sort of valuation, it almost looked like it was it was stupid, free money. Yeah,

Luke: 23:14

exactly. I think just Just to follow on, then reinforce, I think it's a very difficult thing to quantify. But, you know, it's, I mean, I know for myself, as someone who was a CS major, and works as a software engineer, the leadership of someone who is a co founder is so much more respected. Because they built it, they initially built it. So I think that is huge. Even if it just comes down to decision making that people kind of get behind them a lot more than they would some random person who's come in to run the place. I think that is huge. And I think the other thing is, Brian Armstrong hasn't gotten greedy, you know, he hasn't gone crazy during bull runs. And you can see that where Coinbase haven't taken the same opportunities that some of their competitors might have. But it's played out really well for them in the long run. And I think that, again, is huge. And it's, you know, it shows the fact that that is how they survived the early days of this industry. Yeah.

Khush: 24:12

And the last thing is, I think it's he's a bit of a like, name amongst many management circles after what, what he sort of did, when the whole world of America was sort of blowing up about social issues, and companies were taking stands and making policies and, and being very public with it. And I think he, and this is just like sound management, nothing to do with crypto at all. He was like, Look, we're here for the mission of the company. We're here to do what we say we're going to do, we're not here to take a stand on every single issue that comes up. So he sort of made that known. And he said, you know, let's get focused. If you don't want to do that, then, you know, here's a great package go on your way, but most people stayed and really, really got behind him. So I think that galvanized the company, and yet they've since then have absolutely, you know, been blown out of the park and building strongly so I couldn't agree more To wrap up, we'll get into the bear case and the risks, obviously, we're going to probably take this pretty seriously in the crypto space, it's very volatile. So do you want to start with regulation?

Luke: 25:11

Yeah. So I think, you know, it's unfair of us to, I guess, not necessarily pit something but but explain how great something is and then not convey, you know, the problems that I might have. So let's get get into the bear case. I guess one of the big things is regulation, you know, every country and region, I guess, is approaching this differently. The SEC, which is the excute, a Security Exchange Commission in the US, is involved in something called Operation choke, point 2.0. And essentially, they're trying to remove risks to their traditional banks. And this is an industry that's seen as one of those, it's seen as a risk, it's seen as something where they lose monetary control. And, you know, if you look towards the future, there could be a time that exists where there isn't a reserve currency. And having a reserve currency is a huge, huge thing, because you have so much power that comes with that. And so it's, it's essentially in the US as best interest to crack down on this and reduce it as much as possible. And that's tough, because this is a business coming out of there. But you also have regulation in the EU in Australia, in the UK, some of it is more friendly, some of it isn't. But the point is, it's not going to remain unrelated, regulated. And that's both a good thing and a bad thing, because regulation brings legitimacy, but it also brings potential business challenges. But yeah, I think one of the big examples was there was Signature Bank was heavily linked to crypto, and they were essentially made an example of, and they don't really exist anymore. So that's tough. And additionally, the SEC have sued Coinbase for trading unregulated securities. And we'll see what the you know, what this holds for the future. But I think that's that's a huge risk is regulation, for sure. Yeah.

Khush: 27:03

And just on that, I think that one's a really popular one are the really famous one that the SEC suing, I mean, it's been going back and forth. But for years, and this is following the company for a while, they've been trying to, you know, talk to lawmakers and governments and regulators and stuff like that. And then this got sprung on them, but on the industry as a whole. So a lot is happening, but they're very much campaigning for crypto and the industry as a whole. So, I mean, you know, whatever happens to coin base is sort of what direction of the crypto industry and I think it's not going any anywhere, but we'll see you know, what hurdles that come in place. Competitions are usually a pretty common risk, but you have two ways to look at it here. You want to quickly go through that. Yeah,

Luke: 27:47

so I think I guess there's there's two forms of competition, the current competition, which are people that are sitting within the same kind of niche, so you're looking at buying and you're looking at crack, and you're looking at okay, x, but then you also have the competition, that's traditional finance competition, so that is your BlackRock, so your Vanguards, or you know, and essentially, they could potentially be in a scenario where they are no longer the onramp, because Blackrock or Vanguard, or whoever decides, even Citadel or someone goes, you know, we're gonna do the same things. And suddenly, you have huge competition sprouting up. Now, I don't think that's going to happen, because there's a lot of hard work that goes into all of these things. And it's probably not worth it for these, you know, trade fi organizations, especially when they have sat within their niche for so long. And they know that they're good at it, and they're going to probably stick to it. But that doesn't mean that it's not there. And I think in terms of current competition, they're looking very healthy. 100%, just due to, I guess, all the issues that everyone else has had that they've managed to avoid. But look that it's still relevant. It's very relevant. Yeah,

Khush: 28:53

and I think you said this before, but they've been going through pretty steadily, always through the industry. And I'll finish with the last point on, which is, essentially, the crypto windows and the cycles have been through, you know, they've they've come out standard, you know, and they've come out of a consolidated industry as as a leader and a key brand new key name. So I think that the risk is always that, you know, their trading revenues plummet, and you know, crypto gets a bad name, but in my eyes, it's sort of stood the test of time until now, obviously, there's gonna be new new issues to come up. But I think one risk is definitely that crypto gets slammed again, and people are fed up with it. Tread fi completely stays clear. And that sort of thesis that it's going to be the unwrap for a lot of big money. If that fails, then I think the company will really struggle. It's a high consequence, low likelihood risk, I think, but it's definitely one so cannot ignore it. Yeah,

Luke: 29:48

totally agree.

Khush: 29:48

We've definitely pushed time, but Germany to wrap up. I

Luke: 29:52

mean, I guess there's one thing in that I don't think this business will ever disappear. And the main reason for that is that regulation comes from West nations and Western nations don't really get most of the benefits of what decentralization has to offer. You know, it's the idea that you have something that's trustless, where you don't have to trust your government. And we are, you know, both of us are in situations where, for the most part, we trust our governments. Yeah. You know, if I put money in my bank, I expected to be there tomorrow. And, you know, most of the world isn't in that situation. So I don't think Coinbase will ever disappear. They just might have to pivot somewhere else one day, not, hopefully, that won't need to happen. But I think overall, it's a very sound business. Yeah,

Khush: 30:36

I couldn't agree more. And I think I'll just build on that I'm not going to choose a new point is that, you know, they have their hands in, in a fair few different pies. But I think it's come very organically, they've sort of grown into this space, they know crypto very intimately. And you know, the three, the three strategy headings are crypto as an asset class, so as how I suppose the common person knows that updating the financial system, which is what you talked about, which is, you know, making money transfer money security available for more people around the world, not just Western nations, and then crypto powering the future of the internet. So that's more that base layer two going into Coinbase wallets and web three stuff. So you know, they can pivot across these things. They're not Well, it's been organically growing. So it's not for the people with a with a weak stomach. You know, it's volatile, but I think it's a pretty sound business.

Luke: 31:30

If you get in, stick it. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

Khush: 31:34

With that, the caveat, obviously, is, this is not financial advice. It's just purely for entertainment. But we've had tons of fun. So thanks for listening. Find us at QFC crisis.com and GRC crisis on Instagram and LinkedIn. We're in all major streaming services so you can listen how you like. What's today we're going to ask Luke.

Luke: 31:54

I think if you have a listen and you enjoy, we would really appreciate it if you gave us a five star on Spotify. Thank

Khush: 32:01

you. Catch you next episode.